Christian Loving-Kindness–Go to Hell, You Damned Atheist!

dead babies with jesusA friend posted this picture on Facebook after the Sandy Hook murders showing children being welcomed to heaven by Jesus:

The following exchange ensued. (I’m Jenna)

Jenna: This is a rather hideous thing to say to people who have lost their babies….how can a person say that those poor children are now better off dead with NO EVIDENCE? I know it’s meant to comfort, but if I had lost a child…no matter the circumstance….I would be offended and appalled if someone told me my child was better off now with Jesus in heaven.

Carolyn: Where would you rather think they are?

Jenna: They are dead. There is no evidence for any other assumption. It’s very sad and disheartening, but no matter where or what I might wish or hope for, the fact remains that assertions without evidence are merely fairy tales. What I would rather think or what I find pleasant or charming has nothing to do with the facts. And the fact is no one has any evidence of an afterlife of any variety.

Carolyn: You are wrong….but I’ll let you decide how to deal with tragedy and with whom….I prefer grabbing onto Jesus. You are also wrong that there is no evidence….

Jenna: Then provide that evidence. You’ll have to do better than the Bible. That won’t work. You do not have any evidence of an afterlife. You just have a hope…..and a false hope in my estimation. I would rather deal with the hard facts of life head on than lie to myself and others merely for comfort.

Carolyn: I would rather have that hope and that belief and find I am wrong than not have it and find out I am wrong.

Jenna: Carolyn, that’s just Pascal’s Wager. You are taking the bet. It’s a sucker bet. Hope and belief without evidence is gullibility and wishful thinking.

Dom: We would all be better off in heaven. This place is temporary. You may reject heaven but you will believe in hell.

Dom: It’s not gullibility it is not to try to wrap your brain around Gods. People will believe things on TV nature shows that say ” it is not known how blank happens”but it does. I pity the people that can only believe in what their limited brains tell them. We don’t have evidence the universe is infinite but people believe that. So sad. And your right if it was your child you would be devastated because you would be and are lost. Good luck with that. I wish the best for you.

Dom: Medical miracles that have no medical expiation and are in journals. There is evidence. But you have to accept it to see it. It doesn’t work the other way around. It’s not show me God and I will come to you. It’s I’m here lord show me.

Carolyn: Thanks Dom…..someone definitely is lost huh? I always wonder what people who do not have any faith in anything but themselves would do when a crisis hits….eventually they will find out. I wish them luck with that too.

Dom: Got to love them all.

Dom: Love true love is evidence enough for me. No hard feeling Jenna I love you too.

Jenna: Dom, love has an evolutionary basis and is not evidence for a god. I reject heaven and hell and god all for the exact same reason. NO EVIDENCE. For you to say, “you may reject heaven but you will believe in hell” is not only a really vicious thing to say to a woman you do not know, it’s a baseless threat. It’s gullibility to believe in that for which you have NO EVIDENCE. Medical miracles DO have explanations. Spontaneous healing is part of the human condition. Evidence shouldn’t be subjective. I shouldn’t have to have faith to see. That’s ridiculous. If I need faith….IT’S NOT EVIDENCE. And look at you and Carolyn….acting superior and condescending toward me saying I’m lost and one day I’ll find out. What a vile and hateful way to be toward someone who has done NOTHING to you. If this is how you two express your love, you need to reevaluate what you think love is. You both seem to think that I deserve eternal pain and suffering merely for not accepting your deity. How is that loving? How is that kind? How can either of you call yourselves good people when you have basically told me I’m going to be punished FOREVER for the finite crime of not being able to believe something? Do you honestly think telling me that YOU THINK I deserve hell is showing me love? This is part of the problem with Christians….you openly and without shame judge me as worthy of eternal damnation just because I don’t think your god exists and because I’ve asked for evidence. This is not the hallmark of a good person. Shame on both of you. Even the mythical Jesus taught that you weren’t supposed to judge people….but I see you two willfully and with enthusiasm ignore that teaching. No Dom, you don’t love me. If that is how you show love, I pity your friends and relatives.

Carolyn: Oh my….angry much? I never wish hell for anyone. And I never said you would be punished….it is easy to be carefree and happy when things are going well in our lives, but when that world crashes around me….I need Jesus to scream to…and have. I did not judge…just simply wonder who people that speak so hatefully and bitterly scream to…reach out to…when their world crashes. I’ll take the peace Jesus has blessed me with any day…and believe me…it did not come without my pushing it away for a looong time….virtually thinking I could control my own life. Best wishes to you Jenna…we all must choose our own paths…you obviously are pleased with yours.

Jenna: You said, “someone is definitely lost” and “eventually they find out”…implying that you agree with Dom’s assessment that I will burn in hell. You DID judge. And yes, I get angry when self-righteous Christians pretend the KNOW what they cannot know and use that to belittle and defame me. I never spoke hatefully or bitterly….only facutally. Again, you’re judging. What you don’t know is that I used to be a VERY devout Christian. I know EXACTLY where you’re coming from and your mindset and your patronizing attitude is very much a part of that belief system. It was when I was HONEST and did the study (comparative theology for 17 years, FYI) that I realized that it had no basis in fact and was, in large part, morally indefensible. Don’t talk like I don’t KNOW EXACTLY what is going on. I do. So yes….I’m angry at both of you for your pernicious, vicious, mean-hearted assessment and judgement of me. The ONLY thing you know about me is that I do not believe in your god and that was enough for you both to condemn me. And yes, you did too….going along with Dom was agreeing that I deserve hell. At least be adult and admit the truth….it’s written right there for all to see.

Carolyn: Oh sweetie…go take your meds.

Jenna: Really? Now you’re judging me to be mentally ill. How utterly typical of your kind.

Dom: Jenna. I don’t condemn you or judge you. You have made a choice based on your knowledge I can tell you are intelligent probably far more than I am. My point is that you can’t dismiss the probability of an afterlife until your dead. I personally have seen God work in many people’s lives. I can’t judge you. I just have seen many instances working in the medical field where I believe God is at work. This is a rough and painful life and if you believe this is all there is then why does it matter if you die at six or 90. Those kids will never suffer again. You criticize my belief and say your offended but your quick to point out that Christians are weak and need a crutch. Why then would you say disrespectful things about something that make so many live worth living and die peacefully. I don’t have anything against you. As a matter of fact I feel love for you. My question to you is are you afraid to die. I am not. I am ready today. The reason it is such a emotional issue is because believers cannot force anyone to believe and we want you to have what we have. I guarantee there are minds far greater than ours that can except the truth with no evidence of an after life. There are other resources besides the bible that account the resurrection. And the external evidence of Christ is overwhelming.

Jenna: You already HAVE judged me.

Jenna: And there is absolutely no extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus ever lived.

Jenna: Oh….and you don’t get to question me. I have not challenged you nor questioned you….merely pointed out that telling me that I deserve hell is a hideous and vicious thing to say. You seem to have a LOT against me. So save your half-assed apologetics and your smarmy “love” for someone who needs it. I will NEVER need a “love” like yours.

Dom: I haven’t judged you. If you feel that I have I apologize. For all I know God will have mercy on atheists. He is a good God. And there are historical records that Jesus existed. Are you afraid to die?

Dom: I never said you or anyone deserves hell. But whether you like it or not I feel love for you and everybody in this world. And if you can’t answer those simple questions I understand.

Jenna: There are no comtemporary accounts of your Jesus. NONE. You HAVE judged me…and without any reason or cause. I don’t need nor want your apologies. I always appreciate it when people show me their true selves. You have no evidence for god, heaven, hell or Jesus other than your Bible. Sorry, but that doesn’t stand up to skeptical criticisms. Even Christian theologians admit there is evidence of the existence of Jesus outside the Bible. And no, I’m not answering your snotty question.

Jenna: You DID say I would go to hell, and in a rather smug way. You DO NOT love me in any way, and if that’s how you “love” people, again, I pity your friends and family. It is not that I cannot answer your question….it is that I WILL NOT answer a question from a man who has already decided that I’m beneath him because I cannot believe his fairy tale.

Dom: I don’t think I am better than you because I’m a Christian or anything else. If you knew me personally you’d love me too. You have put down the most important thing in my life. I reacted as a person. In defense of my core belief. Truly sorry for any offense. Best wishes. I hope you forgive me.

Jenna: Dom. I used to BE a Christian. Part of the Christian mindset is that you’re better than ALL non-Christians simply because you’re Christians. Some use it as a backhanded and patronizing insult, as you do. Others use it more honestly as an insult. I didn’t put down ANYTHING about you or your beliefs. I merely stated that there was no EVIDENCE. YOU chose to take offense and see it as an attack . I know you’re not actually sorry and I don’t forgive people for being themselves. I merely accept that you’re not the sort of person I choose to associate with. I don’t condemn nor approve. I merely disassociate myself with such people. I do not want to know you personally. This exchange has illustrated most gorgeously that you’re not a nice man.

Carolyn: Unbelievable!

Mary Lou: Jenna, I’ve known you are an atheist from comments you’ve made on ur page, yet I’ve never gone on your page preaching Christianity. I’ve never gone on your page and insulted atheists. Yet you come on my page and tout your atheist views and insult my friends….and my son. Dom is one of the kindest hearted people I know and believe me, everyone who knows him loves him. He and his wife are nurses, and once a month he and his family go to a place in downtown Dallas and spend several hours feeding the homeless. He doesn’t just talk the talk, he walks the walk and is always looking for ways to make the lives of less fortunate better. I just think it’s audacious of you to come on my page insulting Christianity when you wouldn’t appreicate others going on your page insulting atheists and preaching Christianity.

Jenna: Mary, I didn’t insult them first. They insulted me by calling me lost and saying I was going to hell. I never said ANYTHING about what either of them has or has not done outside this comment section….but they BOTH were rude to me for NO REASON. I didn’t belittle their faith, merely said I saw no evidence for it. I didn’t tout ANY views, but I did ask for evidence and was very polite until I was attacked. It’s unfortunate that you don’t see how they belittled and insulted me when ALL I DID was state facts. I couldn’t care less what Dom does with his weekends if he tells me IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that he believes I deserve hell merely for not believing what he does….and he said that. If you think telling strangers they are “lost” and they are going to hell is nice, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s NOT.

Jenna: Mary, fair is fair…..if you’re going to call me out, you need to call Carolyn and Dom out for being nasty for NO REASON. Please re-read the exchange and notice that I NEVER said either of them deserved punishment or were lost. Nor did I imply they were insane, as Carolyn did. It’s unfortunate that you think merely asking for real evidence is an attack on Christianity, but it’s not.

Carolyn: They walk among us….breathe the same air Mary Lou. Scary!!

Jenna: What does that mean, Carolyn? You sound as if you think I’ve got a contagious disease or I’m some sort of monster. Do you not think that is rude to imply that I’m somehow frightening merely because I want evidence before I believe something? Really? Is that how you think? What is SO HORRIBLE about me that you think it’s scary that I breathe the same air you do? How would you feel if someone said such things about you? You’re not a nice woman if you can imply over and over that I’m crazy or scary or somehow not fit to breathe the same air. THAT is the superior attitude that I referred to earlier. Thanks for giving me another demonstration of what an unpleasant person you are.

(I’ll update when and if more is said!)


3 Responses to “Christian Loving-Kindness–Go to Hell, You Damned Atheist!”

  1. 1 rodgerma
    December 16, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    “Liked” because Jenna may have left a lingering question in Carolyn’s and Dom’s subconsciousness.
    Maybe the lingering question one day will open their eyes and minds to try to figure out the difference between reality and illusion. Maybe they one day will ask themselves “Why do I believe this?”
    Or maybe their fear of a god that would punish them in a hell forever if they don’t behave, will keep them in that fear for the rest of their lives. A fear they call “love”, go figure.
    Either way, this is likely my first and last visit to this “blog”.

    Thanks Jenna, you were the only one making sense of the three participants.

  2. 2 Nocturnica
    December 16, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Good job on that one Jenna! Keep them coming, I am so loving your blog!

  3. 3 Nocturnica
    June 18, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    You just have to remember the numerous human beings on this planet that are completely ignorant!

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