Archive for the 'Religion' Category

16
Dec
12

Christian Loving-Kindness–Go to Hell, You Damned Atheist!

dead babies with jesusA friend posted this picture on Facebook after the Sandy Hook murders showing children being welcomed to heaven by Jesus:

The following exchange ensued. (I’m Jenna)

Jenna: This is a rather hideous thing to say to people who have lost their babies….how can a person say that those poor children are now better off dead with NO EVIDENCE? I know it’s meant to comfort, but if I had lost a child…no matter the circumstance….I would be offended and appalled if someone told me my child was better off now with Jesus in heaven.

Carolyn: Where would you rather think they are?

Jenna: They are dead. There is no evidence for any other assumption. It’s very sad and disheartening, but no matter where or what I might wish or hope for, the fact remains that assertions without evidence are merely fairy tales. What I would rather think or what I find pleasant or charming has nothing to do with the facts. And the fact is no one has any evidence of an afterlife of any variety.

Carolyn: You are wrong….but I’ll let you decide how to deal with tragedy and with whom….I prefer grabbing onto Jesus. You are also wrong that there is no evidence….

Jenna: Then provide that evidence. You’ll have to do better than the Bible. That won’t work. You do not have any evidence of an afterlife. You just have a hope…..and a false hope in my estimation. I would rather deal with the hard facts of life head on than lie to myself and others merely for comfort.

Carolyn: I would rather have that hope and that belief and find I am wrong than not have it and find out I am wrong.

Jenna: Carolyn, that’s just Pascal’s Wager. You are taking the bet. It’s a sucker bet. Hope and belief without evidence is gullibility and wishful thinking.

Dom: We would all be better off in heaven. This place is temporary. You may reject heaven but you will believe in hell.

Dom: It’s not gullibility it is not to try to wrap your brain around Gods. People will believe things on TV nature shows that say ” it is not known how blank happens”but it does. I pity the people that can only believe in what their limited brains tell them. We don’t have evidence the universe is infinite but people believe that. So sad. And your right if it was your child you would be devastated because you would be and are lost. Good luck with that. I wish the best for you.

Dom: Medical miracles that have no medical expiation and are in journals. There is evidence. But you have to accept it to see it. It doesn’t work the other way around. It’s not show me God and I will come to you. It’s I’m here lord show me.

Carolyn: Thanks Dom…..someone definitely is lost huh? I always wonder what people who do not have any faith in anything but themselves would do when a crisis hits….eventually they will find out. I wish them luck with that too.

Dom: Got to love them all.

Dom: Love true love is evidence enough for me. No hard feeling Jenna I love you too.

Jenna: Dom, love has an evolutionary basis and is not evidence for a god. I reject heaven and hell and god all for the exact same reason. NO EVIDENCE. For you to say, “you may reject heaven but you will believe in hell” is not only a really vicious thing to say to a woman you do not know, it’s a baseless threat. It’s gullibility to believe in that for which you have NO EVIDENCE. Medical miracles DO have explanations. Spontaneous healing is part of the human condition. Evidence shouldn’t be subjective. I shouldn’t have to have faith to see. That’s ridiculous. If I need faith….IT’S NOT EVIDENCE. And look at you and Carolyn….acting superior and condescending toward me saying I’m lost and one day I’ll find out. What a vile and hateful way to be toward someone who has done NOTHING to you. If this is how you two express your love, you need to reevaluate what you think love is. You both seem to think that I deserve eternal pain and suffering merely for not accepting your deity. How is that loving? How is that kind? How can either of you call yourselves good people when you have basically told me I’m going to be punished FOREVER for the finite crime of not being able to believe something? Do you honestly think telling me that YOU THINK I deserve hell is showing me love? This is part of the problem with Christians….you openly and without shame judge me as worthy of eternal damnation just because I don’t think your god exists and because I’ve asked for evidence. This is not the hallmark of a good person. Shame on both of you. Even the mythical Jesus taught that you weren’t supposed to judge people….but I see you two willfully and with enthusiasm ignore that teaching. No Dom, you don’t love me. If that is how you show love, I pity your friends and relatives.

Carolyn: Oh my….angry much? I never wish hell for anyone. And I never said you would be punished….it is easy to be carefree and happy when things are going well in our lives, but when that world crashes around me….I need Jesus to scream to…and have. I did not judge…just simply wonder who people that speak so hatefully and bitterly scream to…reach out to…when their world crashes. I’ll take the peace Jesus has blessed me with any day…and believe me…it did not come without my pushing it away for a looong time….virtually thinking I could control my own life. Best wishes to you Jenna…we all must choose our own paths…you obviously are pleased with yours.

Jenna: You said, “someone is definitely lost” and “eventually they find out”…implying that you agree with Dom’s assessment that I will burn in hell. You DID judge. And yes, I get angry when self-righteous Christians pretend the KNOW what they cannot know and use that to belittle and defame me. I never spoke hatefully or bitterly….only facutally. Again, you’re judging. What you don’t know is that I used to be a VERY devout Christian. I know EXACTLY where you’re coming from and your mindset and your patronizing attitude is very much a part of that belief system. It was when I was HONEST and did the study (comparative theology for 17 years, FYI) that I realized that it had no basis in fact and was, in large part, morally indefensible. Don’t talk like I don’t KNOW EXACTLY what is going on. I do. So yes….I’m angry at both of you for your pernicious, vicious, mean-hearted assessment and judgement of me. The ONLY thing you know about me is that I do not believe in your god and that was enough for you both to condemn me. And yes, you did too….going along with Dom was agreeing that I deserve hell. At least be adult and admit the truth….it’s written right there for all to see.

Carolyn: Oh sweetie…go take your meds.

Jenna: Really? Now you’re judging me to be mentally ill. How utterly typical of your kind.

Dom: Jenna. I don’t condemn you or judge you. You have made a choice based on your knowledge I can tell you are intelligent probably far more than I am. My point is that you can’t dismiss the probability of an afterlife until your dead. I personally have seen God work in many people’s lives. I can’t judge you. I just have seen many instances working in the medical field where I believe God is at work. This is a rough and painful life and if you believe this is all there is then why does it matter if you die at six or 90. Those kids will never suffer again. You criticize my belief and say your offended but your quick to point out that Christians are weak and need a crutch. Why then would you say disrespectful things about something that make so many live worth living and die peacefully. I don’t have anything against you. As a matter of fact I feel love for you. My question to you is are you afraid to die. I am not. I am ready today. The reason it is such a emotional issue is because believers cannot force anyone to believe and we want you to have what we have. I guarantee there are minds far greater than ours that can except the truth with no evidence of an after life. There are other resources besides the bible that account the resurrection. And the external evidence of Christ is overwhelming.

Jenna: You already HAVE judged me.

Jenna: And there is absolutely no extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus ever lived.

Jenna: Oh….and you don’t get to question me. I have not challenged you nor questioned you….merely pointed out that telling me that I deserve hell is a hideous and vicious thing to say. You seem to have a LOT against me. So save your half-assed apologetics and your smarmy “love” for someone who needs it. I will NEVER need a “love” like yours.

Dom: I haven’t judged you. If you feel that I have I apologize. For all I know God will have mercy on atheists. He is a good God. And there are historical records that Jesus existed. Are you afraid to die?

Dom: I never said you or anyone deserves hell. But whether you like it or not I feel love for you and everybody in this world. And if you can’t answer those simple questions I understand.

Jenna: There are no comtemporary accounts of your Jesus. NONE. You HAVE judged me…and without any reason or cause. I don’t need nor want your apologies. I always appreciate it when people show me their true selves. You have no evidence for god, heaven, hell or Jesus other than your Bible. Sorry, but that doesn’t stand up to skeptical criticisms. Even Christian theologians admit there is evidence of the existence of Jesus outside the Bible. And no, I’m not answering your snotty question.

Jenna: You DID say I would go to hell, and in a rather smug way. You DO NOT love me in any way, and if that’s how you “love” people, again, I pity your friends and family. It is not that I cannot answer your question….it is that I WILL NOT answer a question from a man who has already decided that I’m beneath him because I cannot believe his fairy tale.

Dom: I don’t think I am better than you because I’m a Christian or anything else. If you knew me personally you’d love me too. You have put down the most important thing in my life. I reacted as a person. In defense of my core belief. Truly sorry for any offense. Best wishes. I hope you forgive me.

Jenna: Dom. I used to BE a Christian. Part of the Christian mindset is that you’re better than ALL non-Christians simply because you’re Christians. Some use it as a backhanded and patronizing insult, as you do. Others use it more honestly as an insult. I didn’t put down ANYTHING about you or your beliefs. I merely stated that there was no EVIDENCE. YOU chose to take offense and see it as an attack . I know you’re not actually sorry and I don’t forgive people for being themselves. I merely accept that you’re not the sort of person I choose to associate with. I don’t condemn nor approve. I merely disassociate myself with such people. I do not want to know you personally. This exchange has illustrated most gorgeously that you’re not a nice man.

Carolyn: Unbelievable!

Mary Lou: Jenna, I’ve known you are an atheist from comments you’ve made on ur page, yet I’ve never gone on your page preaching Christianity. I’ve never gone on your page and insulted atheists. Yet you come on my page and tout your atheist views and insult my friends….and my son. Dom is one of the kindest hearted people I know and believe me, everyone who knows him loves him. He and his wife are nurses, and once a month he and his family go to a place in downtown Dallas and spend several hours feeding the homeless. He doesn’t just talk the talk, he walks the walk and is always looking for ways to make the lives of less fortunate better. I just think it’s audacious of you to come on my page insulting Christianity when you wouldn’t appreicate others going on your page insulting atheists and preaching Christianity.

Jenna: Mary, I didn’t insult them first. They insulted me by calling me lost and saying I was going to hell. I never said ANYTHING about what either of them has or has not done outside this comment section….but they BOTH were rude to me for NO REASON. I didn’t belittle their faith, merely said I saw no evidence for it. I didn’t tout ANY views, but I did ask for evidence and was very polite until I was attacked. It’s unfortunate that you don’t see how they belittled and insulted me when ALL I DID was state facts. I couldn’t care less what Dom does with his weekends if he tells me IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that he believes I deserve hell merely for not believing what he does….and he said that. If you think telling strangers they are “lost” and they are going to hell is nice, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s NOT.

Jenna: Mary, fair is fair…..if you’re going to call me out, you need to call Carolyn and Dom out for being nasty for NO REASON. Please re-read the exchange and notice that I NEVER said either of them deserved punishment or were lost. Nor did I imply they were insane, as Carolyn did. It’s unfortunate that you think merely asking for real evidence is an attack on Christianity, but it’s not.

Carolyn: They walk among us….breathe the same air Mary Lou. Scary!!

Jenna: What does that mean, Carolyn? You sound as if you think I’ve got a contagious disease or I’m some sort of monster. Do you not think that is rude to imply that I’m somehow frightening merely because I want evidence before I believe something? Really? Is that how you think? What is SO HORRIBLE about me that you think it’s scary that I breathe the same air you do? How would you feel if someone said such things about you? You’re not a nice woman if you can imply over and over that I’m crazy or scary or somehow not fit to breathe the same air. THAT is the superior attitude that I referred to earlier. Thanks for giving me another demonstration of what an unpleasant person you are.

(I’ll update when and if more is said!)

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20
Jul
12

Muslims Are Testy

Well, well, well….seems that I’ve upset a little Muslim chick and she tried to get me to censor myself, then she was rude and hateful, then she attempted to convert me. She has been informed that her name WILL be used and has given her permission. There are some French portions of the exchange so I will post translations (courtesy of Google Translate) of those underneath each portion.

Let’s get started with this little episode starting back on June 30, 2012:
Kaoutar Zahraoui: Je n’ai pas vraiment aimé ce commentaire. J’aimerais qu’il soit supprimé.
(I have not really liked this comment. I would like it removed.)

——————————
The comment:
Jenna Smith (June 30, 2012): Oh….here’s a question for you to think about……if your god is so great, why does he need humans to do his work for him? Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe need weak, frail, fallible humans to do ANYTHING for him? The whole idea of your god falls apart with the least little scrutiny. How is that real? Real things stand up to questions and scrutiny…..imaginary things fall apart.

Content URL: https://www.facebook.com/rihab.peaceful/posts/487081101307021

Kaoutar Zahrouhi: Je n’ai pas vraiment aimé ce commentaire. J’aimerais qu’il soit supprimé.
(I have not really liked this comment. I would like it removed.)

——————————
The comment:
Jenna Smith (June 30, 2012): Honey, if you wish to believe lies, then don’t be surprised when someone uses them to control you. And they already do. Your god does not DO anything. He doesn’t even give you comfort! YOU DO THAT. As for me, I have plenty of things to believe in……humanity, the earth, love, laughter, the inrinsic goodness of people…..LOTS of things that don’t require me to swallow lies, repeat lies or believe lies. BTW, if you don’t want people to comment on a post, don’t make the post.

Content URL: https://www.facebook.com/rihab.peaceful/posts/487081101307021

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Je n’ai pas vraiment aimé ce commentaire. J’aimerais qu’il soit supprimé.
(I have not really liked this comment. I would like it removed.)

——————————
The comment:
Jenna Smith (June 30, 2012): Oh, and that propaganda spread by Muslim religious leaders about learned people becoming Muslim is pure lies. NAME THEM if they are so apparent and prominent. If you’re going to make such claims, you have to back them up! You have blindly accepted these stories without doing the research yourself.I HAVE done the research…..and that is why I KNOW that the god of Ibrahim is a myth.

Content URL: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=440191529346008&set=a.176341132397717.39061.100000654956542&type=1

Jenna Smith: Je ne suis pas enlever tout de mes commentaires. Vous n’avez pas à les aimer.
(I will not remove any of my comments. You do not have to like them.)
Kaoutar Zahraoui: GO TO HELL 😀 (Yeah, she added a smiley.)

Jenna Smith: Le fait demeure que si l’islam était si parfait, il pourrait résister à toute quantité de questionnement et de contrôle ….. mais il ne fonctionne pas. Avec un peu de la pensée au petit il est détruit et se sont révélés la doctrine fondée sur la peur d’un seigneur de la guerre mesquine qu’il est. Il n’est pas divin ou sacré. C’est juste une façon de contrôler les masses par la peur et la haine.
(The fact remains that if Islam was so perfect, it could withstand any amount of questioning….. but it does not work. With a little thought it is destroyed and found to be a doctrine based on fear of a petty warlord. It is not divine or sacred. It’s just a way to control the masses through fear and hatred.)

Jenna Smith: “GO TO HELL”? Is that the peaceful premise of Islam you love to tout?
There is no hell. Your god is not real. Don’t use it for a reason to be hateful and mean……as you so obviously are.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I do not think you have a mind because I do not see it … I see only “effect” of your mind, that is, that by your intelligence you can speak coherently or solve a problem, but anyway, I do not see his intelligence. Do I need a hole in his head to find it? …

We do not see God, but that’s not to say that He does not exist, everything around us is proof of the existence of God. (Any act requires an author, then a fortiori the universe needs a creator).

Kaoutar Zahraoui: You’re sick honney 🙂 you have no source of life! I pity you

Jenna Smith: Don’t make personal jabs….you won’t help your case. I have not said ANYTHING rude or personal.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: You’ll never succeed me change my mind and belief that Allah is unique and there! So do not break your head;)

Jenna Smith: You should ask yourself then…..why does god not smite me dead? If I am so offensive to your god, why does he not kill me?

Kaoutar Zahraoui: i will tell you why ! wait

Jenna Smith: The universe has been proved to have created itself.
I’m not trying to change your mind……I didn’t address you at ALL. I addressed Rihab.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: You adresse all the musilman ! WE ARE UNITED 🙂

Jenna Smith: I know why I won’t change your mind….you are too scared to see the truth….there are billions of others just like you. It’s sad, really, that you’re so fearful of death that you waste your life worshipping something that does not exist.
Oh…..all Muslims are united, huh? Does that mean you’re a terrorist?

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Okeey ! prove me that you existe JENNA 😉
Prove me that ur really alive
prove me that is YOU and no one else 😉

Jenna Smith: Don’t be silly or rude.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: no im NOT !
im treating the subject such you do 😉

Jenna Smith: The fact remains that if your religions was right ad true, no amount of questioning would shake it…..and you wouldn’t be getting so mad right now.
No, I’m talking about ISLAM….you’re talking about ME.
If you’re not going to be polite, go talk to someone else.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Noo ! i’m talking about the fact you can prove the existence of something 😉

Jenna Smith: You are mad because deep down inside your heart, you know I am correct. Otherwise, you would have no reason to be mad.
You’re being silly, Kaoutar.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: What is your religion?

Jenna Smith: Try this…..have your god, if he is so real and powerful, reveal himself to me.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Who’s your god ?

Jenna Smith: I don’t have a god.

Jenna Smith: Now, back to the subject…..if your god is real, have him prove it.
Surely he can do one tiny thing like that!

Jenna Smith: OR….have your god kill me….whichever you prefer……have your god show himself or kill me….your choice. I’ll give him until tomorrow morning to do one or the other.
24 hours……surely that’s enough time for the creator of the universe to show me himself or kill me.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: (I’m not going to bother to translate the Arabic.)لا حول و لا قوة إلا بالله

Jenna Smith: I speak 3 languages….Arabic is not one of them.
Now…..unless you can get your omnipotent deity to DO something that proves himself to ME….I shall continue to KNOW that it’s just a myth and challenge the idea that he is real anytime I wish.
Have a lovely day! Enjoy the gifts that NATURE has provided.
And I’m not removing any comments! MWAH!!!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: My ALLAH is tolerable, he knows it’s out of you and that you are ignorant that’s why you say that! I love my god and I believe in him! thank you god because I have this advantage that you did not you! my god I know when I read his book the Quoran I am so impressed with the sacred words that is in it! when I pray I feel that I can see it at any time with me to help me! I just feel calm and quiet and I have no problems in my religious life to know that I’m in the right way!
I will not answer you because you speak in a way ugly and sorry for the expression but you do not respect! you persist! you do not wanna know! if you’re really curious and want to know our religion, seeks! looking good! looking in the right direction, and I am sure and certain that you will be convinced!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Check this out si t’en es vraiment interessée à savoiif you’re really interested in) r ( Jenna 😉
La page de l’islam – Dieu existe-t-il ?…
http://www.muslimfr.com
pour connaître, apprendre, comprendre l’Islam… simplement… sereinement….(to know, learn, understand Islam … just … serenely)

Jenna Smith: If your god is so tolerable….then why does he allow children to die?
I’ve studied Islam. It is no different than Christianity.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Then you havent :p

Jenna Smith: I don’t speak French.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: or you’ve studied on the bad way
Okeei i’m gonna translate what is written in 🙂

Jenna Smith: That is the EXACT SAME thing Christians say when you don’t accept their mythology too!

Jenna Smith
Don’t bother. I don’t need it.

I see what Islam produces….

http://ilga.org/ilga/en/article/mi6UKgn1c6
ILGA: Lesbians in Iran: Stories of Persecution and Torture
ilga.org
The Iranian Railroad for Queer Refugees (IRQR) documented cases of Iranian lesbians being forced into marriage, persecuted, become victims of extortion, “persuaded” to undergo hormone treatment and/or sex reassignment procedure, take unnecessary medication for serious mental disorders, raped and tor….

Kaoutar Zahraoui: then it deppens on you ! if you really want to know the right islam you wont care about what the other sayes 😉 you will be WISE !

Jenna Smith: Your religion is a myth.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Okeey 🙂 ! that’s ur point of view

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Please read this well 😉 :

Question: How can you prove that God exists, not through faith.
Answer: The Evidence for the existence of God, even for those who are not believers, are so numerous that we could not identify all. Indeed, each element of the universe, the infinitely large to the infinitely small, is proof of the existence of a Creator. However, we could name three who are ample rational arguments to prove God’s existence to anyone seeking the truth with complete objectivity.
The first sign that attests to the existence of a Creator lies in the sublime order and the flawless organization that governs the universe and protects just the chaos. From the information that we currently have on the solar system, we learn for example that only needs a change of some parameters for cosmic life on earth is not possible. Is it the “Chance” and that has positioned our planet from the sun and moon in relation to it, knowing that a different position would have made our beautiful “blue planet” a chaotic place, unable to accommodate any form of life? It’s the same molecular structure. Small differences in distance between the components of the atom would suffice again to annihilate all living existence. The question again is whether chance alone can explain this order and precision …??? In my opinion, believe that chance and natural organization are the only factors in this situation is the “feat” intellectual.
The second sign that proves the existence of God is the great complexity that characterizes all living organisms: human, animal or plant. Just to be sure to refer again to the information provided by researchers and scientists on the issue.
Another sign of the existence of God: The great diversity found in the form of creatures, yet are all composed of the same basic elements. Can we again take seriously that chance alone could produce such diversity?
However, it is quite surprising that the new discoveries in science have resulted in many researchers away from the recognition of the Creator. It seems that their powers of deduction and perception are too blinded by the clarity of the signs of the presence of the Supreme Being, as too much light blinds the human eye and prevents discern what s offer to him. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that scientific progress, far away from the faith, only serves to confirm that. In other words, one who is convinced of the existence of God sees the fruits of modern discoveries as elements of the overall process established by God for the organization of the universe. The origin of this process, the only Master is of course the Almighty. Those who deny the existence of a creative entity and attribute to Nature only the existence and evolution of the elements of the universe actually focus their attention on the process driver, blinded by the Supreme Force which was originally and is
responsible for its proper operation. It is quite absurd to claim that science alone explains everything. Actually, she just enlighten ourselves about the “how” of things, but it is silent on the origin and the “why” of these things. Where does such distinctive signs present in every human being, as his fingerprints? … its genetic signature? … Why each of these brands is it unique to each individual? Or, from which consciousness and the human psyche? What rational person can accept that a “cosmic soup” could lead to (even after billions of years and many billions of transformations, chemical reactions, developments etc …) such an awareness, such a reason and so developed a mental structure?
In conclusion, I would add that the recognition of God is a feeling buried deep in the conscience of every human being. However, many people force their intellect to “stifle” the innate feeling. Only in extreme situations (like when dying for example) that sometimes to appear. How many times have we heard that people, when they were confronted with death, did call for help or protection of God, while those same people have often spent their lives denying the very presence of God whatsoever.
..
Jenna Smith: I have read the Quran and Hadith and studied for a year and a half under an Imam. He couldn’t answer my questions any better than you do.

And I am not reading that. I do not have the time for you to throw huge texts at me.

Jenna Smith: You have to respect my time more than that.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: You persist, and you do not want to change ur mind as I do! then remain in peace: p

Jenna Smith: The fact remains that YOU cannot prove your god exists so you have to rely on excuses and apologetics and give reasons why, why, why….when all you really have to do is realize it’s a lie and not necessary!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: All I can do is to pray god to help you to know exactely the right way !

Jenna Smith: I ALREADY SUGGESTED YOU DO THAT!!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: If you were convinced you of your religion was not going to look for other religions 😉

Jenna Smith: Your god has 24 hours to prove to me he exists.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Go study your religion first :p
My god is greater than playing this game with you
the future will prove you 😉 and it will be toooo late

Jenna Smith: I was raised a Christian…..and when I realized it was a lie, I went looking for another. That was when I did my year of Islam and realized because I HAD studied Christianity that it was exactly the same.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Good day Jenna and nice to talk with you

Jenna Smith: Dear, I’ve spent 17 years studying comparative theology….I know more about religion….including YOURS…..than you do.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I congratulate you! may be that you know any study but unfortunately you have no feelings to feel the true path!

Jenna Smith: But don’t be a coward…….ask your god to SHOW ME. Have him PROVE himself to me……he’s got 24 hours. I think that would be easy for the creator of the universe……
There is no “true path”.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Well He has no time for you!

Jenna Smith: So god has time constraints???
The most powerful being in the universe who can be everywhere at once can’t take 2 seconds to show me he is real????
Um…..really?

Kaoutar Zahraoui: he created us, he gave evidence for any moral and for all! and he left us the choice! if you want to believe it’s good if you’re free! my god does not force anyone to do something!

Jenna Smith: That does not make sense!
If god gave humans morals, why do people without gods behave morally?
Why do animals behave morally?
You’re not making sense.
And I didn’t say have your god FORCE me to do anything….just SHOW ME.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I would add that the recognition of God is a feeling buried deep in the conscience of every human being. However, many people force their intellect to “stifle” the innate feeling. Only in extreme situations (like when dying for example) that sometimes to appear. How many times have we heard that people, when they were confronted with death, did call for help or protection of God, while those same people have often spent their lives denying the very presence of God whatsoever 😉

Jenna Smith: Do you not see how you are contradicting yourself and making god impossible to exist?
The recognition of god is merely a learned response due to branwashing.
So god won’t help….he just hinders???
LOL…..your arguments are AGAINST god!!!!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: He helps those who believe in him!

Jenna Smith: That doesn’t make sense either.
If he wants me to believe, he has to show me……I didn’t ask him to help me. JUST SHOW HIMSELF.
BTW, you’re making the EXACT SAME EXCUSES that Christians make for god!!!!
ot
It’s as if you’re using a script!
It’s really simple, Kaoutar…..if your god is real and he wants me to believe in him…..all he has to do is SHOW HIMSELF to me. VERY SIMPLE. One tiny thing…….
He has 24 hours.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: if allah will appear! and show Himself as u say! it will not be sacred (ma3adallah) it will be like any ordinary human! if you wanna see allah, will see youself in mirroire you see the creature of Allah around you, then you will see!
Why you tell me that ? i wont order Allah to show himself for you !!! A3OUDOU BILLAH!
it between you and HIM sub7anaah !
Ask him to do whatever to prove that he existe !
cuz you know why , you see things as you want not as they exist
if you want to understand you must be neutral;)
Go learn how to be neutral then came to understand !
you you are stubborn! I will not break my head with you!
May god helps you to know the truth O:)
Salamu 3alaykum 🙂

Kaoutar Zahraoui: if you do not have time for me and my hugs texts! check this video out! it lasts only 10 minutes 🙂

islam: Does God Exist !
http://www.youtube.com
Insha-Allah, rate, share and comment. Today the fastest growing religion in the World is Islam..spreading through the Sword of intellect and Wisdom . http://….

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I add one thing more about children who die for no reason! I’ll tell u something, in this life in general, it’s all about destiny : there is always a reason and a moral for everything that happens to us!
Sometimes it happens something bad and we become sad and we say cursed life!!!l! but over time we realize that it was for our good ! Allah loves us and he still wants good for us!
Maybe that those children would live a hard life !! that’s why Allah took them! for not to souffer in life, in their future life ! the future that only Him knows it! 😉

Jenna Smith: Look, YOU cannot prove your god exists. ONLY HE CAN.
I am not moved or impressed by your brainwashed ramblings because not only do they not make any sense AT ALL, they are the EXACT SAME THINGS Christians say!!! You cannot both be right……but you can both be wrong.
So, your god has to show himself to ME. I don’t care about your proof.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Jenna , check this out and you’ll understand why christiens change their religion in Islam! and why they no longer believe in God = Jesus!
This proves that we’re not the same!
And by the way, you’ll find the answer to all your questions! and you’ll know why god can not be seen and appeared! 😉
If you really wanna know the truth !
That’s all i can tell you 🙂
Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus is not God – Joshua Evans – TheDeenShow
http://www.youtube.com
In this video Joshual Evans -a former Youth Minister- shares 10 reasons why Jesus can not be God. Get your note book put ready for this one, we’ll be giving ….

Jenna Smith: No, Kaoutar, that won’t explain anything. I don’t think Christianity is right either. The ONLY proof would be if god showed himself to me.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Okeei then wait for it 🙂 ! i told ua that YOU DONT WANT TO UNDERSTAND AS YOU PERSIST ! 😉
When we want to understand something, we try to have proof, we do not require it !

Jenna Smith: No, that’s not how it should work…..if god is THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE….then it should be nothing for him to show me VERY EASILY. It should be so obvious that there is no mistaking it. You’re over there making excuses as to why the most powerful being in the universe can’t do something……and you don’t realize that JUST DOING THAT proves he does not exist!

Jenna Smith: BTW, I used to believe in the god of Abraham…..then I looked for real proof to back up my belief. When I found NO EVIDENCE AT ALL, I could not, as an honest person, continue to believe something just because it made me comfortable.
I value the truth too much.
So…..24 hours from this morning…..we can call it 9 am…..and god has to give me proof.
Otherwise, he is just a figment of your imagination.
I am not dishonest enough to call “faith” a virtue.
……………………..

And there it ended. Or so I thought.

Yesterday–July, 19, 2012, Miss Muslim decided to send me another proselytizing Islamic video:

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Hey Jenna 🙂 hope u’re doing well ! i just wanna share with ua this beautiful video! don’t worry it’s in english! you wont lose anything if ua watch it ! it’s from an american men ! 🙂
مسيحي ينهار من البكاء بعد إجابة يوسف إستس على سؤاله !!.
http://www.youtube.com
شبكة المُخَلِّص الإخبارية http://5m4u.com/ قناة المُخَلِّص http://youtube.com/ElmokhalesTv.

Jenna Smith: What is it?
Honey, I am not watching a 33 minute video unless I know why you want me to watch it.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: This is a peace conference! From Yusuf Estes!! this men is a live example for the greatness of Islam may Allah reward him Jannah 🙂
Hope ua will watch it!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I’m sure ua will feel soooooo well after 🙂 even if ua dont believe in islam 🙂

Jenna Smith: No. I’m not interested in proselytizing.
I don’t have time to waste on conversion vids.

Kaoutar ZahraouiAs ua like 🙂

Jenna Smith: Please don’t do this sort of thing again. I consider this to be extremely disrepectful and rude. I do not send you private messages trying to convert you and I would appreciate the same consideration.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: i wasnt trying to convert you, i just saw it and i thought of you! i thought it will please ua ! because it contains all the answers to your questions that’s it! sorry anyway if i have disturbedua 🙂

Jenna Smith: You were trying to convert me. I didn’t ask any questions that I didn’t already have answers for.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: But you dnot know your God! and that’s a big question! This is the basis for any belief !

Jenna Smith: I don’t have a god. God is a myth.
YOU think I have a question. I don’t. YOU just want to convince me to stop attacking your religion. I won’t do that.
..
Kaoutar Zahraoui: You dont have a God :O That’s awful :/ and who created you? yourself ? then why you get sick? why you have problems? why you’re not perfect?
WHY PEOPLE DIE? WHERE DO THEY GO ?

look at around you! all this creature requires the presence of a great creator! which should not be a human! either a myth ! .. 😉

Kaoutar Zahraoui: and attack my religion as you want I’m tolerable!
I just wanna help ua to know the right way to the paradise 🙂

Jenna Smith: Little girl, now you’re being rude. I didn’t ASK for your help and for you to assume I want or need your mythology to be happy is arrogant and disrespectful. YOU DO NOT KNOW ME. This entire exchange started because YOU didn’t like something I said about Islam and you demanded I remove some comments.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: for you to live quietly ,cuz ua know if you were a religious person you would not attack other religions! you would be satisfied and happy with your religion 🙂

Jenna Smith: Religion is not the key to happiness. It’s the road to ruin.
Now stop trying to convince me of the rightness of your faith. I am not harassing you and I don’t appreciate you harassing me.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: okey that’s why you’re ruined! and you have nothing to do but comment post of their people and try to change them mind and disturb them! Rihab is my SISTER if you dont know it and i was trying to defend thats all!
I am free to express myself as I want if you do not agree you can not answer me or block me
Too easy 🙂

Jenna Smith: I didn’t attack Rihab. I attacked ISLAM. There was no need to defend her or demand I remove any comments. And you need to stop being so insulting to ME…..I have not said ONE THING about you, but you’re calling me names (ruined, unhappy, sad) and being rude for no reason. I was not bothering you. What is wrong with you that you have to harass a stranger for no reason?

Kaoutar Zahraoui: im NOT rude! maybe it’s ua who see me like that!
Well i’m sorry anyway; last thing i want ua to know, ua said that ua didnt attack Rihab but ISLAM ! well honney, WE as a MUSULMAN ! our religion is something
françaisanglaisarabe sacred to us! you can kill my father or my mother and do NOT speak ill of my religion, my prophet , my ALLAH !!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: cause it was really rude of you to touch our belief! you had to say bad about our God, and you know it’s worse! ua see !

Jenna Smith: You ARE rude. You are harassing a stranger for NO REASON.
And I will say anything I want about your religion. The fact that you’d rather see your family dead than have someone say something TRUE about Islam shows what a horrible religion it is.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Hahahahahahahaha you’re weird! you understand just what you want to understand !!

Okeey ! YOU will say anithing you want .. and I will keep defend ! like that we’re equal 😀

Jenna Smith: You can address me in public. Not privately.
If I post on a comment on a page, you’re free to say anythig you want there. NOT HERE

Kaoutar Zahraoui: i said my father and mother died just to make ua UNDERSTAND an KNOW how much we can be clooose to our religion 😉

Jenna Smith: Be honest and keep it out in the open.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: you’re right ! next time i’ll 🙂

Jenna Smith: No, you meant that you would rather see your family dead than have me speak the truth about Islam
You shouldn’t have addressed me privately today. It was rude and pushy.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: No honney ! that’s what you’ve understood 😉
I dont find myself rude ! 🙂

Jenna Smith: Post it publicly and if I happen to comment, then you can reply. Otherwise, be a decent person and don’t harass me privately.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: if you do i told ua what to do 😉

Jenna Smith: Again, you’re TELLING me….as if I have to follow your orders. You’re really rude.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: im adressing to you not the public 😉

Jenna Smith: I don’t want you to address me privately anymore.
Have a lovely day and feel free to post on my wall.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Thank you 🙂

Jenna Smith: Add me if you wish, but be warned. I do not care about any religion and I attack them ALL. You might get your feelings hurt.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: By the way, if i’m again rude! you AGAIN prouve that uar a closed minded you understand just what you want to understand
Okeey! i will think about it 😀
Bay baay !

Jenna Smith: I studied Islam. I ahve also studied many other religions. What other religions have you spent years studying? I think that demonstrates just exactly how open my mind actually is. You just think I’m closed-minded because I think your religion is wrong. Christians say the same thing. It’s like there’s a “Defend Your Religion With These Easy Phrases” book you all have.

Jenna Smith: Now, you can add me or not. Your choice. I’m not going to answer you again privately.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: oooh please stop giving me your cv !!
Yes , i have study a looooooooooot about ISLAM and every time it prove me that i’m right just the way I AM !!!
But you know at least, people have a religion to believe in and defend! even if they’re wrong! but they believe !! the prob is when you dont believe in ANYTHING !!! that’s awful and sooo sad 😦 😦 !

And guess what! I thought, and I will not add you, I will add the people who will give me one more reason to keep this belief, not someone who will not serve me! it will just upset me 🙂

I promise that I will not bother you again! but if you’ll change your mind and you want me to help you can add me, i’ll do it with pleasure 🙂

One last thing, you have not studied the knowledge and all that has no relation with age? so stop calling me Little girl heein 😉

Jenna Smith: Yes, my dear, you’re a little girl. You’re also a bit of a coward. If your faith was SO strong and SO right, a few little questions wouldn’t shake it. So, you go right ahead and run and hide. I wouldn’t want to upset your perfect little fantasy. However, if you ever get ready for reality, I’ll help you realize what I know…..ALL religions are just stories made up to control the masses and gain money and power and god is just a myth.
..
Kaoutar Zahraoui: No thank you! keep your knowledge and your studies for yourself, it will serve you 😉 I’m glad with what I am! I am totally satisfied (thank you god ♥ )!

Ahh by the way, you didnt say that you’re not going to answer me again ??? What you do it then ??
Keep your promess BIG GIRL 😀 !

Jenna Smith: You said you weren’t going to harass me. I figured one lie deserved another.
Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy your bliss.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Hahahahaha noo sweety! i didn’t say it ! i said that IM FREE ! I CAN EXPLAIN AS I WANT ! 😉

Jenna Smith: Yes, you did. You said you never wanted to harass anyone.
Messaging me out of the blue after weeks of not communicating IS harassment. Look, child, if you wish to debate, don’t be a coward. Add me and do it publicly. Otherwise, you’re just a weak, little girl who doesn’t have the conviction of her faith. You say you really believe in Islam and it’s true, so put your actions behind your words. STAND UP FOR IT PUBLICLY. Don’t be so scared. Surely if it’s right, it can stand the questions.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: No I did not say! and whatever .. It’s my turn then please stop bothering me! it was my last msg and i wish you wont answer again 🙂

Jenna Smith: Now, LITTLE GIRL…..and I call you that because not only am I old enough to be your mother, you have the unbridled arrogance of youth. Add me or leave me alone.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: Allah isme7 lek u ihdik u khlas hedshi li n9der nzidek! 🙂

Jenna Smith: Coward. Write it in English.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I said may god forget ua and help ua to know the right way! 🙂
forgive*

Jenna Smith: What a rude thing to say!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I’ve prayed for ua! that’s not a bad thing don’t worry 😉 ! and by the way, uar not obligated to answer or to say something! cuz for us, in our religion when we pray for ua ! you’ve just to say amen! to get the good things that’s it 🙂 !

Jenna Smith: So you sat there and did nothing but hope I would believe your fairytale.
You’re so rude! It’s pathetic the way you religious people act toward the rest of us! You demand respect, but refuse to give it.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: No, i didn’t pray that you believe in my religion! I prayed in general 😉 ! Gosh how ua can make things sens out !!!!!! ua never want to understand others :/

Jenna Smith: Child, all prayer is a waste of time. How about you use those hands for work instead of wasting time.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I work harder than you think my dear! I am active dont worry! 🙂

Jenna Smith: BTW, this entire conversation is going in my blog……and being linked to my FB page.
If you’ve got time to pray, you don’t have nearly enough to do.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: I’ve time for both !

Jenna Smith: No, you waste time talking to yourself and wishing others would believe the same foolishness.

Kaoutar Zahraoui: 😀 (Her penchant for smilies is annoying.)

Jenna Smith: And I’m still blogging this……
and i am not changing the names……you’re about to be facebook famous
Remember when you told me to “GO TO HELL”? That was SO Muslim of you!

Kaoutar Zahraoui: You was talking with a bad way !!! you was attacking ma sister , you was attacking me !! that’s why i have say it !!
and dont worry im not scared about anything ! stop telling me that you posting that on your wall because i TOTALY dont care!!!! i am so convinced about what i say!
so FEEL FREE 😉

Jenna Smith: I did NOT attack you or your sister. I asked QUESTIONS about your religion. You then demanded I remove them and then tried to damn me to hell. Go back….read them again. I NEVER attacked either of you. I ONLY asked a few simple questions.
………………………..

And there it ended. For now at least!

31
Jan
12

A Funny Thing Happened on Facebook…..

Dateline:January 31, 2012–

Okay, so I get up this morning and went to Facebook, and the following discussion ensued:

Darenda S: Lots of prayer request on fb this morning..for both human friends and four legged friends..i just dont understand why there has to be such cruel people and such horrible diseases in this world..power of prayer and uplifting in the spirit we all can do..it dont cost u anything but a few seconds to say a little prayer ..thanks in advance …

Wisdom: It doesn’t cost anything…..it doesn’t do anything…..

Lisa K: Wow, how sad 😦 Sorry for your loss Wisdom. I’ll pray that u find peace.

Wisdom: What are you talking about, Lisa?
Oh, and don’t pray for me. If you want to help someone DO something.

Ella B: an humble prayer is doing something.. it is asking our almighty Father in heaven to have mercy and give us HIS grace to deal with whatever HIS will is. HE knows what is best, even when we , as human sinners, cannot understand. I don’t know you but i HAVE prayed for you…

Wisdom: Folding your hands and mumbling is not DOING anything.

Ella B: everyone has their own views.. in my opinion and belief.. God hears every prayer sent HIS way… He answers in His own time .. sometimes yes.. sometimes no.. and sometimes.. not yet

Rev. Doug H: one day Wisdom you will SCREAM for God to save you. do it now while you have a choice

Wisdom: Oh, so now you’re going to threaten me with your imaginary friend?
Charming.
You have no proof hell exists, so I dismiss your threat as the arrogant, hateful piffle it is.
“That which is asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

Lisa K: The uglyness on ur heart sadens me. Your pain must be great? I understand ur need to strike out at those of us but it won’t ease ur pain. I pray u deal with ur demons b 4 they consume you. I’m sure ur a wonderful person in spite of the anger u hold towards those who chose to believe in Christ.

Rev. Doug H: have you ever seen a newborn baby? or seen a beautiful sunrise on a beautiful day? or even the storms on a not so beautiful day? maybe a hummingbird when you feell down? or just look at the mountains and the beauty of the sea? look aro…und you Wisdom, all of God’s miricles are proof of His existance. even your birth was a miracle of God. I love you, even tho you hate what I stand for. and that is a miracle of God too. read your bible. BE BLESSED

Wisdom: Lisa, it’s not pain, it’s disgust. However, you go right ahead and waste your time. You pray for me….I’ll think for you.
Doug, have you ever seen a child eaten with disease? How about children starving from famine? What about the result…s of an earthquake or tsunami? How about birth defects or stillbirth? What about the viruses, bacteria and other virulent, infectious “gifts”?

The beauty is wonderful but you’re ignoring the filth.

Rev. Doug H: yep i have. BE BLESSED

Wisdom: So your god ONLY is responsible for the goodness but the rest is just what? Accident? Mistakes? Not his department? C’mon Doug! A little intellectual honesty please.

Ella B: i do not know why you are so bitter and it is none of my business.. but God loves you no matter what.. whether you choose to believe in Him or not.. HE believes in YOU!!! His love and grace is all around us. Wisdom.. I have lost so many l…oved ones, but i have the peace in knowing without a doubt that they are with Jesus.. I have even lost a grandbaby..8 months invitro, I begged Jesus to take me instead of the baby,, but it was not His will..He knew, and knows, what was the best… that baby is with Jesus and someday, i will see her again… May God bless you and comfort your heart Wisdom….

Rev. Doug H: You should know why those things happen Wisdom. You live for satan, so you know where those things come from. Come to God before it is too late for your everlasting life. I meant it when I said i love you and I would love to meet you in person to lead you to the Lord and ALL of his goodness. BE BLESSED.

Wisdom: It’s not “bitter”. Again, it’s disgust. Otherwise intelligent people abandoning their good sense for a fairy tale! Seriously? Talking snakes? Virgin birth? You wouldn’t buy that if someone said it happened today, why believe it because someone said it happened then?
Unless and until you can PROVE something, you cannot assert it as FACT….just belief….or hope….or a wish. But I don’t base my life on wishful thinking or imaginary beings OR old books. I like to work from reality.

Wisdom: Don’t try to threaten me, Doug. I don’t believe in your boogey man either.
BTW, YOUR BIBLE says YOUR GOD created EVERYTHING and has ALL the power. If, as you say, those things are from Satan (who your god claims he created!) then your god allowed it.
Logic says that if your deity CAN prevent evil and DOES NOT, then either he is evil or indifferent.

Rev. Doug H: I wasn’t gonna respond to you anymore but this is my last post. God gives us choices. and yes He allows things to happen not because He is evil, but to show us He can bring us through. He has brought even you through some tough times. H…e walks with me down here or I will walk with Him up there.. He has the power to choose, not me. I will definately pray for you and I hope you add me as a friend so you can see what God is doing in my life. I still love you. BE BLESSEDSee More

Wisdom: According to your Bible, your god CREATED evil. That makes him evil in my opinion.
Tell you what. If your god is so powerful, make him show me. Have him prove it. If he knows everything, he knows my fondest wish, my deepest desire, my dir…est need…..have him attend to it TODAY. Remember, your Bible says in John 14:13….”And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.” You’ve got that direct line to god, don’t you? Use it. Have him give me what I want, need and miss the most. It is a VERY specific thing so I’ll know if it happens. It won’t be ambiguious. Surely your all-mighty can do this one, small, simple thing…..See More

Wisdom: Oh, and I’ll add you as a friend IF, and ONLY IF, your god does this one thing……

Rev. Doug H: He just did. He sent me to tell you the good news that you can have Salvation and an everlasting life with him. WHAT MORE WOULD YOU WANT. I still love ya. BE BLESSED

Wisdom: No, you don’t get to cop out like that. Either he can do what he said or he can’t. Have him do this specific thing for me and I’ll believe. YOUR BIBLE SAYS HE CAN! So, work that mojo, mister!

Patti A: You are a sad, sad young lady!!! and I to will PRAY for you!!!!!

Wisdom: Go ahead! Add your prayers to Doug’s for my proof! Come on….all of you gang up on me with your prayers and have god send me the specific proof I need. You think prayer works…..fine. PROVE IT!

Rev. Doug H: yes He can. but, not because i ask for it. You have to believe He can. And it is not a cop out. It is the truth, He sent me to tell you about Him

Rev. Doug H: Worldly things will never make it to Heaven

Wisdom: Your BIBLE says he can IF YOU ASK. Are you saying the Bible is wrong?

Wisdom: I even quoted the verse, Doug……

Rev.Doug H: One verse of the bible won’t get it. read the rest of it. BE BLESSED

Ella B: wisdom… my heart and prayers go out to you…. and yes. i believe in the one and only almight God

Wisdom: I have read the whole thing. I’m asking you to use your clout and ask for the thing I need, want and miss the most. If he can’t do it……why not just admit it without saying he WON’T do it? You’ve not even TRIED to pray for my proof, have you?
Come on….you should at least TRY! Put it to the test. Jesus SAID you could!

Wisdom: I don’t care what you believe. I want proof. YOUR belief isn’t proof for ME. Join Doug in praying for my proof! Surely the creator of the universe and the most might thing ever can do one, tiny, little, piddly thing to prove this to me…..

Rev. Doug H: WISDOM ADD ME AS A FRIEND AND FIND OUT WHAT GOD DOES IN MY LIFE THAT I CAN TRUST IN HIM AND LIVE FOR HIM AND DO HIS WILL. LOOK AT WHAT GOD HAS DONE….IS DOING…. AND WHAT HE WILL DO. This is my last post here. If you wanna discuss it further send me a friend request and i will respond there

Wisdom: No, Doug. I’ve told you what my criteria for adding you is. If you can’t do it, just admit it.

Patti A: Doug, just Pray that God will give her peace and mercy, that is what she needs the most!!!!!

Wisdom: No, y’all do what the Bible says you can do! Pray for my proof! Make it a group effort! YOU don’t get to decide what my proof is…..I DO. However, if y’all can pray this into happening today, I’ll become a Christian the SECOND it happens and post it for the world to see!
John 14:13 says you can do this so do it! Y’all could at least TRY!

Ella B: God knows your heart wisdom and your desires.. He only gives us what we need.. not what we want

Wisdom: That’s a cop out Ella. The Bible SPECIFICALLY says, “And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”
It says “whatever”…..I think that covers my proof. It does not say you only get what you need, not what you want! Jesus says he will do it JUST to glorify his father! So, put that promise to the test! Have him send me my proof!

Ella B: i will wisdom… praying that His will be done…I ask in Jesus

Wisdom: No, not “his will”. MY PROOF. Exercise that promise jesus supposedly made in Joh 14:13.

Wisdom: Oh…..and he’s got a time limit. I figure the most powerful being in the Universe should be able to meet a deadline… 1:00 am Wednesday, Feb 1, 2012.

Ella B: Jesus’s name , that IF what you want is in His will, He will grant it for you… Have a blessed day… My prayers are with you.. You keep going on about PROOF… you woke up this morning.. that if PROOF… you are breathing,, your heart is beating,.. that is PROOF… Again,, my heart goes out to you Wisdom.. have a blessed day…. Time is like unto a vapor to the Lord God almighty…

Wisdom: No, this is YOUR prayer for me. YOU are asking him to give me PROOF.
The fact I woke up isn’t proof of god. It’s proof of biology.
So if time is like a “vapor” to god, then he should have no problem doing this one, teeny, tiny thing to s…how ME. You want me to believe, well….ask for the proof that will convince ME….not the proof that works for YOU.
BTW, the verse doesn’t say anything about it being “in his will”. It says “whatever”……that seems to imply you can ask for ANYTHING. So do so! Surely he can give me the proof I need to convince ME.

Ella B: yes He can Wisdom… but YOU have to believe in it also.. beyond a shadow of a doubt… believe!!! i gotta go Wisdom… God bless you

Wisdom: No, I don’t have to believe it BEFORE the proof. The proof is to CAUSE the belief. Besides, this is YOUR prayer and YOUR belief. So don’t try to wiggle out with that bassackward logic. If he can do anything you ask in his name, then YOU ask… him to send me the specific proof I have in mind. Surely a being that can create the entire Universe with a thought can do this one small thing.
If your god wants me to believe then he knows the criteria he has to meet. My piddly little lack of belief shouldn’t be a stumbling block to his omnipotence.
Don’t smear blessings on me unless and until my proof arrives.

Patti A: First of all.To all my fellow Cristians.Youve said and done all you you could.and yes keep on praying.but lets remember 1st Cor.2:14 and that will explain it all.I will add this to my prayers.By the way its good to here from you guys Doug and Ella. Love ya!!! Eddy

Wisdom: Awww….Patti….throwing in the towel? You’re not even going to TRY and pray for the specific proof that will convince me?

……..
That’s all for now. I PWNED!!!

………
UPDATE:

Ella B: love you too eddy… i know exactly what you mean….

Wisdom: Just so y’all know, the deadline came and went and no proof. I guess prayer didn’t work, huh.

Patti A: Wisdom, may GOD have mercy on your soul!!! like it or not I will pray for you!!!!

Wisdom: But I ASKED you to pray for me!!! Remember? I asked that specific proof be sent by 1:00 am this morning. It didn’t work.
I can issue another prayer challenge if you like, but if you’re going to pray for me to start thinking the way you do …and to start agreeing with your ideology, you will be spectacularly wasting your time.
What NONE of you know is that I used to be a very devout Christian. Yes! I was scared of hell and thought Jesus was cool……then I read the Bible.
THAT is what caused me to leave.
……………
This, IMO, is the ONLY way the religious are entertaining.

11
Feb
11

Unasked Question About “Salvation”

Okay, we all know I think Christianity is a load of shit and I’ve clarified a few of the reasons why I think so, but I have a question to ask of Christians.

If God the Father just HAD to kill someone to redeem everyone (which in itself is not only a ridiculous but vulgar proposition) then why is it not failsafe? In other words, why must one accept the belief that Jesus died for our sins for it to actually save us? Why didn’t God just say, “Okay, I killed my son to save all y’all and you’re all going to heaven……no exceptions! He died for YOUR sins so don’t worry about a thing. Consider it your ‘Get Out of Hell Free’ card.” If he’s so benevolent and loving and merciful then why not make it good for everyone regardless?

Now, don’t trot out the old “free will” argument. It doesn’t make sense if you want to claim omniscience for God. So either we have free will and can actually change events OR God knows everything beforehand and nothing we do can change diddly…..either way, why not make the salvation failsafe? It wouldn’t affect free will to be given a gift freely without the strings of belief attached. And if God is omniscient, it wouldn’t change anything there either.

I think the fact that you HAVE to believe to be “saved” proves that it’s not about a deity at all but about power and control. If everyone is saved regardless of how they think or believe or behave, then they can’t control you. However, if, as Christians assert, you must believe to be saved and you are then to follow the rules and regulations they can assert control over you. They can tell you how to spend your money, how to use your time, who to fuck, how to fuck, when you can and cannot do this, that and the other, who to like and dislike and a whole host of other dictatorial bullshit.

So how about it Christians? Why isn’t salvation failsafe? Why, if Jesus paid the ultimate price (which he didn’t if he was resurrected–contradiction much?) for our sins, isn’t it good for everyone no matter what?

30
May
10

Why I’m Not a Christian–Part 2

So there’s this Supreme Creator of the Universe, not just this planet, the whole fricking Universe, and HE (I’ll get back to that) not only made this planet–a fourth rate dust mote on the edge of a trifling galaxy in the outer reaches of Nofuckingwhere–the center of not only his attention, but that previously mentioned ginormously-huge-beyond-all-comprehension Universe. AND he not only created all that fabulosity, but he’s got an ego problem and needs us mere tiny humans on this insignificant piece of Universal lint to worship and praise him or he will be displeased and might well smite us all.

Uh…..yeah.

While I do believe in Universal Intelligence, I don’t think it cares for each one of us personally. That would be like caring about each of the cells in your body personally. Oh, sure, you sorta kinda care about your spleen, but how many of you actually know where it is? And if you DO know where it is, can you name the parts of the spleen? The function of the spleen? How about the names of all the cells in the spleen?

I’m sure you see where I’m going with this……

The Universe may well have a Supreme Intellect, but that doesn’t mean that this supposed intellect needs us OR that we need it to survive. I don’t feel that the Universe is that involved on a day-to-day basis with each and every individual person. It’s simply not necessary.

Ritual worship is NOT to make the Universal Intellect happy. Nope. It’s to make the worshipper feel more in tune and connected with the Universe. The Universe doesn’t need your praise or worship. IF the Universal Intellect is paying attention at all, and I’m not saying it is or isn’t, I’m sure that it’s pleased that we notice it and thank it for being there, but hey, it was going to be there whether you thanked it or not. And so were you.

Ah….here’s the part that twists the panties of most theists.

We are not some purposefully created creatures. We are just the likely by-product of the Universe and pretty much what happens on rocks like the one we inhabit. Life isn’t planned so much as it just happens. Sure, it was supposed to happen, but our lives are no more important to the Universe than life anywhere else. Think about it…..do you hold your spleen in higher regard than your appendix? Do you even think about them? Just like organs generally show up in the same configuration in humans, life shows up on habitable planets. It’s just how the Universe does shit.

Now Christianity would have you believe that not only was this ginormously-huge-beyond-all-comprehension Universe created solely for the human life on this teeny weeny planet and that we are the CENTER of the attention of that Universe but that the Creator of that Universe is angry, spiteful, vengeful, petty, trite, small-minded, hateful, vicious, misogynistic and will do bad things to you if you don’t kiss his Supreme Ass on a daily, or at least weekly, basis. AND that this schizophrenic deity not only created us in his image, but made us ‘sinful’. And because we are sinful, we will all go to hell forever and ever and ever unless we accept his son, who is really him, as our ‘savior’ and then spend our lives emulating him and his infinite ‘greatness’.

Right.  And I’ve got horns on my ass that play “Moonlight Sonata” when I fart.

And this masculine creator business……really? IF you must anthropomorphize a deity who created the who ding-dang Universe, why not make it female? It  only makes sense since all the life on this planet is generally created by the females.  Hell, in some cases, there are no males of the species. Some females eat males. Some incorporate them into their bodies. Some males die after mating. Some males are the nesting material for the young. It’s seems pretty darn obvious when you take a close look at nature how the males of the species are generally considered not all that important. So why does a male creator make even the tiniest bit of sense?

It doesn’t.

Well, as a kid, I was spoon-fed the cutesy, lovable, darling aspects of the Christian God and Jesus. I loved the Bible stories, especially the ones with the cool ass pictures in my mom’s Bible. I was told that God loves me and watches out for me and has a home for me when I die.

Then I started using my “God-given” brain and it all fell apart like cardboard in a thunderstorm.

The more I learned about the world and science and astronomy, the more it clear it became that I was being lied to on a regular basis by those who loved me most. 

Oh, I tried…..I really tried to believe that God existed as they told me and that he cared for me and that he had a plan for me. But the older I got, the harder it was to pretend that any of this was reasonable, right and good. I wanted to belong and wanted to feel the “Holy Spirit” and wanted to feel close to God. It never happened. Not like they say it does anyway.

I did feel the presence of the Universal Intelligence FINALLY. Years after I left Christianity in disgust, I was still searching for a connection to the Divine, for lack of a better word. Then I got an ear infection. It was the worst ear infection in history. It was horrible. Several rounds of antibiotics had failed miserably leaving me with explosive diarrhea and a yeast infection that made me want to commit suicide. So I called around, found an herbalist and got her remedy. It worked in a mere days. Three days later, my ear was healing nicely, the diarrhea was gone and the yeastie boys had been sent packing. So I called to thank this wonderful person who had given me this remedy. She and I got to talking and the topic came around to religion……and I’m not sure how it happened, but I recall clearly the sentence that changed my life. She said, “Maybe you need to acknowledge what you are.” I said, “What is that?” She said, “You’re a witch.”

The next week, I attended my first circle and I’ve not looked back since.

That was about 15 years ago. Since then, my beliefs have morphed and changed as I learned more. I hope that continues as my life goes on. That is the beauty of Paganism. We don’t have a static way of being with the Universal Intellect. We can change it and adapt it to our personal lives and it will change and grow with us. We don’t have spiritual leaders or holy books. We have no hard and fast rules except one, “Do as you will and harm none.” 

There’s more to why I’m not a Christian, but that’s enough for today. I’ve rambled on enough and I’d like to go outside for a while and enjoy the wonders of the Universe…..or at least my little corner.

24
Apr
10

There’s a God Being Born in Iceland

There’s a God being born in Iceland

Conceived of lightning and lava and snow.

There’s a God being born in Iceland

And it’s likely no one will know

For this God being born in Iceland

Is born in the age of the mind.

No one will notice, even though they all see,

The birth of a God this time.

This God being born in Iceland

Is forged of fire and stone.

But this God being born in Iceland

will stand on the mountain alone.

No one will see her and worship.

No one will send her their praise.

She will stand in the North, in Iceland,

Alone for all of her days.

Yes, a God’s being born in Iceland

And I would like to be first

To see her and worship and send her a prayer

And welcome her on her birth.