Archive for the 'Spirituality' Category


Christian Loving-Kindness–Go to Hell, You Damned Atheist!

dead babies with jesusA friend posted this picture on Facebook after the Sandy Hook murders showing children being welcomed to heaven by Jesus:

The following exchange ensued. (I’m Jenna)

Jenna: This is a rather hideous thing to say to people who have lost their babies….how can a person say that those poor children are now better off dead with NO EVIDENCE? I know it’s meant to comfort, but if I had lost a child…no matter the circumstance….I would be offended and appalled if someone told me my child was better off now with Jesus in heaven.

Carolyn: Where would you rather think they are?

Jenna: They are dead. There is no evidence for any other assumption. It’s very sad and disheartening, but no matter where or what I might wish or hope for, the fact remains that assertions without evidence are merely fairy tales. What I would rather think or what I find pleasant or charming has nothing to do with the facts. And the fact is no one has any evidence of an afterlife of any variety.

Carolyn: You are wrong….but I’ll let you decide how to deal with tragedy and with whom….I prefer grabbing onto Jesus. You are also wrong that there is no evidence….

Jenna: Then provide that evidence. You’ll have to do better than the Bible. That won’t work. You do not have any evidence of an afterlife. You just have a hope…..and a false hope in my estimation. I would rather deal with the hard facts of life head on than lie to myself and others merely for comfort.

Carolyn: I would rather have that hope and that belief and find I am wrong than not have it and find out I am wrong.

Jenna: Carolyn, that’s just Pascal’s Wager. You are taking the bet. It’s a sucker bet. Hope and belief without evidence is gullibility and wishful thinking.

Dom: We would all be better off in heaven. This place is temporary. You may reject heaven but you will believe in hell.

Dom: It’s not gullibility it is not to try to wrap your brain around Gods. People will believe things on TV nature shows that say ” it is not known how blank happens”but it does. I pity the people that can only believe in what their limited brains tell them. We don’t have evidence the universe is infinite but people believe that. So sad. And your right if it was your child you would be devastated because you would be and are lost. Good luck with that. I wish the best for you.

Dom: Medical miracles that have no medical expiation and are in journals. There is evidence. But you have to accept it to see it. It doesn’t work the other way around. It’s not show me God and I will come to you. It’s I’m here lord show me.

Carolyn: Thanks Dom…..someone definitely is lost huh? I always wonder what people who do not have any faith in anything but themselves would do when a crisis hits….eventually they will find out. I wish them luck with that too.

Dom: Got to love them all.

Dom: Love true love is evidence enough for me. No hard feeling Jenna I love you too.

Jenna: Dom, love has an evolutionary basis and is not evidence for a god. I reject heaven and hell and god all for the exact same reason. NO EVIDENCE. For you to say, “you may reject heaven but you will believe in hell” is not only a really vicious thing to say to a woman you do not know, it’s a baseless threat. It’s gullibility to believe in that for which you have NO EVIDENCE. Medical miracles DO have explanations. Spontaneous healing is part of the human condition. Evidence shouldn’t be subjective. I shouldn’t have to have faith to see. That’s ridiculous. If I need faith….IT’S NOT EVIDENCE. And look at you and Carolyn….acting superior and condescending toward me saying I’m lost and one day I’ll find out. What a vile and hateful way to be toward someone who has done NOTHING to you. If this is how you two express your love, you need to reevaluate what you think love is. You both seem to think that I deserve eternal pain and suffering merely for not accepting your deity. How is that loving? How is that kind? How can either of you call yourselves good people when you have basically told me I’m going to be punished FOREVER for the finite crime of not being able to believe something? Do you honestly think telling me that YOU THINK I deserve hell is showing me love? This is part of the problem with Christians….you openly and without shame judge me as worthy of eternal damnation just because I don’t think your god exists and because I’ve asked for evidence. This is not the hallmark of a good person. Shame on both of you. Even the mythical Jesus taught that you weren’t supposed to judge people….but I see you two willfully and with enthusiasm ignore that teaching. No Dom, you don’t love me. If that is how you show love, I pity your friends and relatives.

Carolyn: Oh my….angry much? I never wish hell for anyone. And I never said you would be punished….it is easy to be carefree and happy when things are going well in our lives, but when that world crashes around me….I need Jesus to scream to…and have. I did not judge…just simply wonder who people that speak so hatefully and bitterly scream to…reach out to…when their world crashes. I’ll take the peace Jesus has blessed me with any day…and believe me…it did not come without my pushing it away for a looong time….virtually thinking I could control my own life. Best wishes to you Jenna…we all must choose our own paths…you obviously are pleased with yours.

Jenna: You said, “someone is definitely lost” and “eventually they find out”…implying that you agree with Dom’s assessment that I will burn in hell. You DID judge. And yes, I get angry when self-righteous Christians pretend the KNOW what they cannot know and use that to belittle and defame me. I never spoke hatefully or bitterly….only facutally. Again, you’re judging. What you don’t know is that I used to be a VERY devout Christian. I know EXACTLY where you’re coming from and your mindset and your patronizing attitude is very much a part of that belief system. It was when I was HONEST and did the study (comparative theology for 17 years, FYI) that I realized that it had no basis in fact and was, in large part, morally indefensible. Don’t talk like I don’t KNOW EXACTLY what is going on. I do. So yes….I’m angry at both of you for your pernicious, vicious, mean-hearted assessment and judgement of me. The ONLY thing you know about me is that I do not believe in your god and that was enough for you both to condemn me. And yes, you did too….going along with Dom was agreeing that I deserve hell. At least be adult and admit the truth….it’s written right there for all to see.

Carolyn: Oh sweetie…go take your meds.

Jenna: Really? Now you’re judging me to be mentally ill. How utterly typical of your kind.

Dom: Jenna. I don’t condemn you or judge you. You have made a choice based on your knowledge I can tell you are intelligent probably far more than I am. My point is that you can’t dismiss the probability of an afterlife until your dead. I personally have seen God work in many people’s lives. I can’t judge you. I just have seen many instances working in the medical field where I believe God is at work. This is a rough and painful life and if you believe this is all there is then why does it matter if you die at six or 90. Those kids will never suffer again. You criticize my belief and say your offended but your quick to point out that Christians are weak and need a crutch. Why then would you say disrespectful things about something that make so many live worth living and die peacefully. I don’t have anything against you. As a matter of fact I feel love for you. My question to you is are you afraid to die. I am not. I am ready today. The reason it is such a emotional issue is because believers cannot force anyone to believe and we want you to have what we have. I guarantee there are minds far greater than ours that can except the truth with no evidence of an after life. There are other resources besides the bible that account the resurrection. And the external evidence of Christ is overwhelming.

Jenna: You already HAVE judged me.

Jenna: And there is absolutely no extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus ever lived.

Jenna: Oh….and you don’t get to question me. I have not challenged you nor questioned you….merely pointed out that telling me that I deserve hell is a hideous and vicious thing to say. You seem to have a LOT against me. So save your half-assed apologetics and your smarmy “love” for someone who needs it. I will NEVER need a “love” like yours.

Dom: I haven’t judged you. If you feel that I have I apologize. For all I know God will have mercy on atheists. He is a good God. And there are historical records that Jesus existed. Are you afraid to die?

Dom: I never said you or anyone deserves hell. But whether you like it or not I feel love for you and everybody in this world. And if you can’t answer those simple questions I understand.

Jenna: There are no comtemporary accounts of your Jesus. NONE. You HAVE judged me…and without any reason or cause. I don’t need nor want your apologies. I always appreciate it when people show me their true selves. You have no evidence for god, heaven, hell or Jesus other than your Bible. Sorry, but that doesn’t stand up to skeptical criticisms. Even Christian theologians admit there is evidence of the existence of Jesus outside the Bible. And no, I’m not answering your snotty question.

Jenna: You DID say I would go to hell, and in a rather smug way. You DO NOT love me in any way, and if that’s how you “love” people, again, I pity your friends and family. It is not that I cannot answer your question….it is that I WILL NOT answer a question from a man who has already decided that I’m beneath him because I cannot believe his fairy tale.

Dom: I don’t think I am better than you because I’m a Christian or anything else. If you knew me personally you’d love me too. You have put down the most important thing in my life. I reacted as a person. In defense of my core belief. Truly sorry for any offense. Best wishes. I hope you forgive me.

Jenna: Dom. I used to BE a Christian. Part of the Christian mindset is that you’re better than ALL non-Christians simply because you’re Christians. Some use it as a backhanded and patronizing insult, as you do. Others use it more honestly as an insult. I didn’t put down ANYTHING about you or your beliefs. I merely stated that there was no EVIDENCE. YOU chose to take offense and see it as an attack . I know you’re not actually sorry and I don’t forgive people for being themselves. I merely accept that you’re not the sort of person I choose to associate with. I don’t condemn nor approve. I merely disassociate myself with such people. I do not want to know you personally. This exchange has illustrated most gorgeously that you’re not a nice man.

Carolyn: Unbelievable!

Mary Lou: Jenna, I’ve known you are an atheist from comments you’ve made on ur page, yet I’ve never gone on your page preaching Christianity. I’ve never gone on your page and insulted atheists. Yet you come on my page and tout your atheist views and insult my friends….and my son. Dom is one of the kindest hearted people I know and believe me, everyone who knows him loves him. He and his wife are nurses, and once a month he and his family go to a place in downtown Dallas and spend several hours feeding the homeless. He doesn’t just talk the talk, he walks the walk and is always looking for ways to make the lives of less fortunate better. I just think it’s audacious of you to come on my page insulting Christianity when you wouldn’t appreicate others going on your page insulting atheists and preaching Christianity.

Jenna: Mary, I didn’t insult them first. They insulted me by calling me lost and saying I was going to hell. I never said ANYTHING about what either of them has or has not done outside this comment section….but they BOTH were rude to me for NO REASON. I didn’t belittle their faith, merely said I saw no evidence for it. I didn’t tout ANY views, but I did ask for evidence and was very polite until I was attacked. It’s unfortunate that you don’t see how they belittled and insulted me when ALL I DID was state facts. I couldn’t care less what Dom does with his weekends if he tells me IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that he believes I deserve hell merely for not believing what he does….and he said that. If you think telling strangers they are “lost” and they are going to hell is nice, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s NOT.

Jenna: Mary, fair is fair…..if you’re going to call me out, you need to call Carolyn and Dom out for being nasty for NO REASON. Please re-read the exchange and notice that I NEVER said either of them deserved punishment or were lost. Nor did I imply they were insane, as Carolyn did. It’s unfortunate that you think merely asking for real evidence is an attack on Christianity, but it’s not.

Carolyn: They walk among us….breathe the same air Mary Lou. Scary!!

Jenna: What does that mean, Carolyn? You sound as if you think I’ve got a contagious disease or I’m some sort of monster. Do you not think that is rude to imply that I’m somehow frightening merely because I want evidence before I believe something? Really? Is that how you think? What is SO HORRIBLE about me that you think it’s scary that I breathe the same air you do? How would you feel if someone said such things about you? You’re not a nice woman if you can imply over and over that I’m crazy or scary or somehow not fit to breathe the same air. THAT is the superior attitude that I referred to earlier. Thanks for giving me another demonstration of what an unpleasant person you are.

(I’ll update when and if more is said!)


Why I’m Not a Christian–Part 2

So there’s this Supreme Creator of the Universe, not just this planet, the whole fricking Universe, and HE (I’ll get back to that) not only made this planet–a fourth rate dust mote on the edge of a trifling galaxy in the outer reaches of Nofuckingwhere–the center of not only his attention, but that previously mentioned ginormously-huge-beyond-all-comprehension Universe. AND he not only created all that fabulosity, but he’s got an ego problem and needs us mere tiny humans on this insignificant piece of Universal lint to worship and praise him or he will be displeased and might well smite us all.


While I do believe in Universal Intelligence, I don’t think it cares for each one of us personally. That would be like caring about each of the cells in your body personally. Oh, sure, you sorta kinda care about your spleen, but how many of you actually know where it is? And if you DO know where it is, can you name the parts of the spleen? The function of the spleen? How about the names of all the cells in the spleen?

I’m sure you see where I’m going with this……

The Universe may well have a Supreme Intellect, but that doesn’t mean that this supposed intellect needs us OR that we need it to survive. I don’t feel that the Universe is that involved on a day-to-day basis with each and every individual person. It’s simply not necessary.

Ritual worship is NOT to make the Universal Intellect happy. Nope. It’s to make the worshipper feel more in tune and connected with the Universe. The Universe doesn’t need your praise or worship. IF the Universal Intellect is paying attention at all, and I’m not saying it is or isn’t, I’m sure that it’s pleased that we notice it and thank it for being there, but hey, it was going to be there whether you thanked it or not. And so were you.

Ah….here’s the part that twists the panties of most theists.

We are not some purposefully created creatures. We are just the likely by-product of the Universe and pretty much what happens on rocks like the one we inhabit. Life isn’t planned so much as it just happens. Sure, it was supposed to happen, but our lives are no more important to the Universe than life anywhere else. Think about it… you hold your spleen in higher regard than your appendix? Do you even think about them? Just like organs generally show up in the same configuration in humans, life shows up on habitable planets. It’s just how the Universe does shit.

Now Christianity would have you believe that not only was this ginormously-huge-beyond-all-comprehension Universe created solely for the human life on this teeny weeny planet and that we are the CENTER of the attention of that Universe but that the Creator of that Universe is angry, spiteful, vengeful, petty, trite, small-minded, hateful, vicious, misogynistic and will do bad things to you if you don’t kiss his Supreme Ass on a daily, or at least weekly, basis. AND that this schizophrenic deity not only created us in his image, but made us ‘sinful’. And because we are sinful, we will all go to hell forever and ever and ever unless we accept his son, who is really him, as our ‘savior’ and then spend our lives emulating him and his infinite ‘greatness’.

Right.  And I’ve got horns on my ass that play “Moonlight Sonata” when I fart.

And this masculine creator business……really? IF you must anthropomorphize a deity who created the who ding-dang Universe, why not make it female? It  only makes sense since all the life on this planet is generally created by the females.  Hell, in some cases, there are no males of the species. Some females eat males. Some incorporate them into their bodies. Some males die after mating. Some males are the nesting material for the young. It’s seems pretty darn obvious when you take a close look at nature how the males of the species are generally considered not all that important. So why does a male creator make even the tiniest bit of sense?

It doesn’t.

Well, as a kid, I was spoon-fed the cutesy, lovable, darling aspects of the Christian God and Jesus. I loved the Bible stories, especially the ones with the cool ass pictures in my mom’s Bible. I was told that God loves me and watches out for me and has a home for me when I die.

Then I started using my “God-given” brain and it all fell apart like cardboard in a thunderstorm.

The more I learned about the world and science and astronomy, the more it clear it became that I was being lied to on a regular basis by those who loved me most. 

Oh, I tried…..I really tried to believe that God existed as they told me and that he cared for me and that he had a plan for me. But the older I got, the harder it was to pretend that any of this was reasonable, right and good. I wanted to belong and wanted to feel the “Holy Spirit” and wanted to feel close to God. It never happened. Not like they say it does anyway.

I did feel the presence of the Universal Intelligence FINALLY. Years after I left Christianity in disgust, I was still searching for a connection to the Divine, for lack of a better word. Then I got an ear infection. It was the worst ear infection in history. It was horrible. Several rounds of antibiotics had failed miserably leaving me with explosive diarrhea and a yeast infection that made me want to commit suicide. So I called around, found an herbalist and got her remedy. It worked in a mere days. Three days later, my ear was healing nicely, the diarrhea was gone and the yeastie boys had been sent packing. So I called to thank this wonderful person who had given me this remedy. She and I got to talking and the topic came around to religion……and I’m not sure how it happened, but I recall clearly the sentence that changed my life. She said, “Maybe you need to acknowledge what you are.” I said, “What is that?” She said, “You’re a witch.”

The next week, I attended my first circle and I’ve not looked back since.

That was about 15 years ago. Since then, my beliefs have morphed and changed as I learned more. I hope that continues as my life goes on. That is the beauty of Paganism. We don’t have a static way of being with the Universal Intellect. We can change it and adapt it to our personal lives and it will change and grow with us. We don’t have spiritual leaders or holy books. We have no hard and fast rules except one, “Do as you will and harm none.” 

There’s more to why I’m not a Christian, but that’s enough for today. I’ve rambled on enough and I’d like to go outside for a while and enjoy the wonders of the Universe…..or at least my little corner.


There’s a God Being Born in Iceland

There’s a God being born in Iceland

Conceived of lightning and lava and snow.

There’s a God being born in Iceland

And it’s likely no one will know

For this God being born in Iceland

Is born in the age of the mind.

No one will notice, even though they all see,

The birth of a God this time.

This God being born in Iceland

Is forged of fire and stone.

But this God being born in Iceland

will stand on the mountain alone.

No one will see her and worship.

No one will send her their praise.

She will stand in the North, in Iceland,

Alone for all of her days.

Yes, a God’s being born in Iceland

And I would like to be first

To see her and worship and send her a prayer

And welcome her on her birth.

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